1.Хорошо, допустим, что Иeзекииль должен был провести манипуляции с палками. Но пророчество, как вы говорите не исполнилось. Т.е. 10 колен Израиля потеряны, угнаны в плен и рассеялись по всему свету. Бог неоднократно до Иeзекииля и после Иeзекииля обещал, что соберёт их вместе. Это событие будет связано с приходом Мессии. У меня вопросы: 1. Значит тогда, по вашему, Мессия должен был прийти во времена Изекииля? 2. Почему пророчество не исполнилось? Почему Иeзекииль ничего не сделал, что Бог ему сказал сделать? Что-то должно было помешать. Так что же помешало? Ничего не помешало. Значит не время было складывать палки в одну руку. Значит это должно произойти в будущем. Значит наступит то время, когда палки будут одно и нации будут один народ и Яхве будет их Богом и закючит с ними вечный завет. Но я всё равно буду ждать от вас аргументы и объяснение, почему пророчество не исполнилось.
2. Хорошо, допустим вы правы и палки - просто палки и ничего больше. Допустим, что такое предположение имеет право на существование, и я вам это говорю на полном серьёзе. Но можно также предположить, что палки - это книги/летописи. И вы не сможете привести НИ ОДНОГО аргумента, что такое предположение нельзя сделать. А раз не сможете, то палки вполне могут быть книгами/летописями. Я вам уже сказала, что Пророк И.Смит получил откровение о том, что палки в этой главе - летописи/книги. Но всё равно можно так и предполагать даже, если бы не было откровения.
Я понимаю, что вы читаете по английски. Пожалуйста, поделитесь со мной, что вы думаете об этих рассуждениях. Это выдержки из статей. если не понимаете, я вам переведу.
P.S. Во времена Изекииля могли писать на пергаменте, просто эти летописи не могли до нас дойти, так они не могли сохранится.
"We have noted that the Babylonian Writing Tablets may shed some light on Ezekiel. Archaeological excavations at Nimrud, just south of ancient Ninevah along the Tigris river has startled scholars, especially concerning ancient writing techniques. Max Mallowan, the excavator, also the husband of Agatha Christie, the famous mystery writer, noted that the discovery of the "oldest book in the world" was a pure chance affair. The workmen in a well descended 75 feet below surface and the workman was in to his waist in water when he discovered the wooden tablet, and the sides of the well began to cave in! They got him out just as the well collapsed with a roar, and thus the writing tablet and workman were saved by mere seconds. ("Excavations at Nimrud (Kalhu), 1953", "Iraq" XVI (1956), pt. 1, 99)."
"Because Mormons equate Ezekiel's sticks with books, a closer look at this intriguing find is necessary. When we read the Septuagint (the Greek Old Test.) at Ezekiel 37:15-20 we note that the Hebrew word etz, rendered "stick" in the KJV, was rendered "rod" ("rabdos") in the Greek. A rod of course is a tribal sceptre and in Ephriam's hand connotes his rulership over the northern kingdom of Israel. In Judah's hand connotes his rulership in the south.
Keith Meservy in his article "Discoveries at Nimrud and the "Sticks" of Ezekiel 37" in "SEHA", Nov. 1978, notes that "Stick" and "rod" are the respective translations of the Hebrew word "etz" in the KJV and Septuagint (Greek) versions. (p"
"The Jews, who know their own tradition by far more in depth and detail than we Christians, have always maintained that Ezekiel's sticks were books. Granted they are records of the nations, but they are books. The origin of the Hebrew roll is precisely a stick, with paper wrapped around it as instructions became too voluminous to write on just a stick. That is why there is a stick in the middle of the old Hebrew rolls of scripture."
"Incidentally, the old Babylonian as well as Assyrian writing boards were also called books, which were the predecessors of the Hebrew roll as well. Further, both Eusebius and Jerome in their commentaries, and both thoroughly trained in Hebrew maintained that the "woods" of Ezekiel were actually books, specifically, books of scripture. Dr. Keil, the foremost modern Jewish commentary on Ezekiel finds it most significant that though the "woods" are definitely rods or staves in some connections, Ezekiel deliberately avoids calling them such, since he does not wish to presentthe complex symbolism of the sticks in any way to obscure the priority of the "woods" as written documents."
"What have the staff, the serpent and the Word of Jahwe to do with each other? In Egypt, exactly as among the Hebrews, that is, the Jews in the Old Testament, i.e. Ezekiel's time here, the staff was specifically the Word of God and the Word of God was the Matteh he-elohim or the Staff of God. "
"The Hebrew word "etz" can mean almost anything in the Old Testament. It can be translated as tree if the context calls for it, or branch, image, musical instrument, framework, idol, house, ax, plow, man you name it! But the question.....yes, the question is how does Ezekiel use it? He says there is writing involved. Write on the stick for Joseph and the other stick write on it for Judah and Israel his companions. As the great Jewish commentator Kiel noted, for Ezekiel, THIS IS A WRITING. Some say a tablet. That is Ezekiel's context. If I am wrong, I await your exegesis. Ezekiel certainly is not talking about a tree or a framework here, but a writing, and Jews believe that means scripture."
"After all, sticks = books. When is a book a book? To the ancients, length was no matter at all. One word could be an entire sermon! Length proves nothing concerning whether these are books or not. Keil, again, the FOREMOST Jewish authority and commentator says with Ezekiel's emphasis on WRITING, that even the Rod of Moses was a book! After all, it had the plain letters of the exalted name inscribed on it. It had the name of the ten plagues also inscribed on it. It had the names of the three fathers and six mothers and the twelve tribes of Jacob inscribed on it also! This, in other words, IS a book, a tablet. The early use of the word logos and logographoi refers to writings of any length as a separate book."
"Ezekiel tells us of a writing FOR Joseph and another FOR Judah, keeping the Hebrew Preposition "Le" in mind, which means "TO" or FOR." And the longer the message was, the more staves, or staffs, or sticks were added, and hence the origin of the ritual bundle of staves found throughout the ancient world. This is the ancient tradition that Ezekiel is tapping into. The actual ancestry of the book in Asia was just such stave bundles or strips of bamboo which were put all together. The fan of ancient China is another example. All those sticks with paper tied inbetween them to unfold and hence the more message that could be written. But for all that, this is still a stick."
"Finally, Hugh Nibley in his review of Yigael Yadin's magnificent archaeological discovery of Bar Kochkba, notes that Yadin found 23 double deeds, or tied deeds as they are called. This is a new archaeological proof of the tally sticks idea in antiquity and used for exchangeur tallies throughout the Middle Ages. "Very early, strips of parchment or cloth was attatched to the sticks and wrapped around them since there was not enough room on the stick to write a lengthy contract. This was the origin of the Hebrew scroll wrapped around a staff. (Nibley, BYU Studies, XIV (Autumn 1973"
"We need to examine the phrase is le'u and see how it might have a bearing on how we interpret the Hebrew word 'es. The phrase literally means 'wooden tablet' however the inscription on the cover tablet of the ivory set, however, identifies this as a wooden tablet (is le'u) made of elephant ivory. Obviously it was made of ivory, but the author did not say it was a ivory tablet, but a wooden tablet (is le'u) of ivory. Clearly there is more to the meaning of the phrase is le'u than "wooden tablet". Instead of a wooden tablet it means a wax writing board. The ivory board would then be a wax writing board made of ivory. The latin word liber originally meant "tree bark", but we don't think of a librarian as a tree-bark specialist. Similarly, the name paper is derived from papyrus, but we don't think of papyrus when we refer to paper today.
Now let us examine the Hebrew word 'es (wood) used in Ezekiel 37. In doing so, we accept the following facts:
1. From times already ancient in Ezekiel's day, scribes in Mesopotamia had been composing records on wooden boards.
2. The technical term in Akkadian for such a record was is le'u (wooden tablet).
3. The name of such a record was so well established by use in antiquity that, even when one might write upon a base made from another kind of material, such as ivory, it would still be called a "wooden" writing board or tablet.
4. Extensive records were composed by joining one tablet to another.
5. Tablets joined together in this manner might form such extensive records that scholars appropriately refer to them as books, the Nimrud writing boards being the oldest know examples.
6. Such records were made by people who lived in various places: from the Near East through the Mediterranean world into Europe.
7. This process provided such a convenient and practical means of keeping records that it was used for thousands of years and was not superceded until more efficient ways were discovered in relatively recent times.
8. "Stick," "rod," and "staff" are either unique or at least rare translations of the Hebrew word 'es.
9. Hebrew 'es basically means "wood."
Now knowing that Ezekiel lived in a world were scribes wrote upon boards and that the name of such a board was is le'u in the Babylonian language; and considering that he was commanded to take an 'es (the Hebrew cognate of the Babylonian 'is, meaning "wood" or "board") and write upon it and then to take another 'es and write upon that one also and then join the one 'es to the other in order to form a single 'es: then--if we know all these facts--how ought we to translate 'es? Could we possibly translate it as either "stick" or "rod"? Should we not rather give 'es what is actually its commonest Hebrew meaning: "wood" or "board"? Moreover, because Ezekiel was commanded to write upon it, may we not call it more specifically a writing board? Thus, Hebrew 'es in Ezekiel's context would connote to us exactly what is le'u does in the Babylonian tongue. And when Ezekiel was commanded to write upon a second board and join it to the first in order to form a single board, this was the exact process, we recall, by which a folding wax tablet anciently was put together. "
